Minor victory for the FMS.

woooooohooooooo guys is that what i see now ? not bad massacre made U-129 who was that ??

Well first let me congratulate your team for the last night match. You seem to have very good gunners on your u-boote !! Then we can just agree you missed victory short ! I can't believe we won with 2 DD so damaged they were out and only 1 only 100% healthy.

I tell you guys, next time forget about attacking us on surface with your sub's guns or we will "bite" your back

Last word, we want to thank you for the game ! Sorry I disconnected at the end by mistake (2 times ESC too fast) so I had no chance to say thx and good bye.

Looking forward for the round 2

The next battle is in 6 days.

The time will show!!


P.S.
I hope that I won't be disconnected during revenge.

Grom you are right but it's pretty hard to fire a salvo when you can't see your target

The map was just perfect for the subs as the sea was dark and really I tell you a sub is really hard to spot with these conditions. Your strategy almost paid, anyway you did the good choice guys ! Once again good match

hy guys

i'm verry happy for this this first contact and battle with the pl seman fleet in a good atmosphere of friendship

good luck at all fleet for once again

friendly

Can u tell me guys where is my profil control?? I wish to move my pics to signature.
Pullbrick:
Well i been training a lot with cannons, in single mode. I am using manual TDC, it comes with better efect. Suppose that SUB cannon was used by Madadas. I know thats his way of fight. Mad Adas Will c what PS DD's make i hope they can handle this task
P.S: OPS i found my controll but accidently erased my previous post. Sorry for this misstake

Well . I believe you would do it this time if you just knew how .

ok here we go thats Polish Seamen player KIA Board for compare

ok for me it's ok

There is not a problem in your result of the two team?

i see success on the first table (MS) and in see success on the second table of the PL

Who is the winner of this set?

read this one bzh

4 - PLAYER’S SCORES and TEAM’S STANDINGS
4.1 The scores will be defined after the 2 games .
4.2 A manche it is composed of 2 games, one played like DD the opther like sub. The 2 games will be played on the same mission.
4.3 At the end of each manche the score for each teams are calculated making the sum of the points of every player member the team; the high result will give the winner.
4 points to the winner
2 points to both teams in case of parity
1 point to the losing team
0 points in case of absence to the rendez-vous (but demand for cancellation of the game at least 24h before)

are you ok with the rules ????? bzh

This is very simple: U see this because objective point for one single sub is to sank minimum 30 000 BRT & is different than objective point for DD's. Objective point for DD's is to save minimum 75% of convoy tonage. Thats why both KIA Boards are talking about SUCCESS in the mission.

Now: Math expert has computed scores:

MS- DD's

DD452 Madison Pullbrick - 201 pts.
DD443 Swanson MS_Roccc(DC) - 201 pts
DD442 Nicholson MS_Moibidick - 171 pts
------------------------------------------------------------
OVERALL - 573 pts


PS - SUB's

U-129 PL_Madadas - 294 pts
U-130 PL_Prien - 61 pts
U-404 PL_Malina - 111 pts
-------------------------------------------------------------
OVERALL - 466 pts

PLS compare. If scores are correct u can make registration of 1st game

hi grom


sorry but me i read in the board

ms 573 points

pl 463 not 466

are you ok ???

can u share it on plyers like i did above ??

ok grom

sorry but is calculator programme who do 4.5 pts =4 pts not 4.5pts =5 pts

too if 4.9 pts =4pts

i'm not responsable for program section

I dont think these 3 pts make any different but i post it on PS forum will see what they answere

ok confirm me if i can valid the game or if there is other answere

ok authrize it. np.

I just remained myself that we have add some modifications to rules. Might be my french is to bad, but i cant find them in Inter Flotilla rules. Modification what i am talking about was discussed at msn & we agreed with it. I am talking about 15 minutes free drop period & scoring players.
I hope u remember this. In agreement with this rules, if PL_Prien didnt make any action against DD's & wasnt under attack - suppose to be count as SURVIVE. He was disconnected in 16th minute of the game.

There's something i dont understand guys. Why PL_PRIEN got just 61 pts? according to the Interflotlla rules the guy should be counted as SURVIVE not KIA. He got disconnected not beeing attacked by any of the DD's. I hope u will revise it.
And another thing. I do have some experience with php and mysql and please dont tell us that the calculator makes 4 of 4.9 pts. This is just a matter of setting u set using particular command in php. Think about it and correct the error please, so we won't have any problems like this in the future.

hi grom hi olo

for prien deconnection is after 15 min free period y join host log

the game start 5h45 game time and prien deconnected at 6h16





the rules for deconection

2 - LENGTH OF GAMES
2.1 if they remain only the DD: 30 min after the last sub sunk or disconnected
2.2 if they remain the single ones sub: 2 hours + 30 min (to 8x)
2.3 At the beginning of the game it will be institued a Free Drop Period: in case of logoffs in the first 15 minute, the game will be resstarted; if logoffs will happen outside this period then the game will continue regularly (and such logoffs will be considered like sinkings



if you want the rules in english go in this post they are in italian and english

http://www.mille-sabords.com/forum/index.p...=ST&f=39&t=3561

for the calculator program is not me responsible of this section but i whrite a message at benhassen (ms programator )

if there is other questions read in this

friendly

The problem of rounding down points will be fixed in a next version of my application program (may be this week).
anyway:
For all the played games, even if validated the points will be updated WITHOUT this rounding as soon as the new version will be implemented.

This means that the validated games will be invalidated, the points re-computed and they will need a new validation with the new point values.

Cheers,
Benoit.

hi all as interflotilla responsible for DR65 i would tell to PL that the rules for disconnection is very clear in if rules:
1.3 The player disconnected during the game will be considered like sunk

and (as kingcharle say before)

2.3 At the beginning of the game it will be institued a Free Drop Period: in case of logoffs in the first 15 minute, the game will be resstarted; if logoffs will happen outside this period then the game will continue regularly (and such logoffs will be considered like sinkings


for the problems of the rounded calculations benassen is trying to solve this problem , so just a littyle bit of patience plz



P.S. PL_from and PL_OLO

probably u are asking "who is DR65_IvanShark?"
i was DR65_Karlf now i will be DR65_IvanSHark , but i'm always the interflotilla responsible for DR65 team and my emasil adress will not change

bye

Hi OLO,


When i round real values to integer, php round it to the next lower value.
See my post at:

http://www.mille-sabords.com/forum/index.p...=ST&f=39&t=3743
If you know the way to change this in php, can you please copy me ?
thank you for your remarks,

Benoit.

I believe you have already found the solution. Anyway this is the way it should be done:

Thanks for your php help. I will test it in next version.
B.

Ok Guys You have modified our propositions. Main idea of those propositions was, that we cant count disconnected player as KIA, because its not fair for player. Example, player disconnected no action no game. Why should count as KIA ?? I based on WPL rules, which in my opinion are as justice as can be.

Anyway
There was some cannon shooting so is justice count disconnected player as KIA. I agree whit score, also with those 3 pts lower.

Yeah. We had some talking about it with PL_Prien and I appologize for the mess i caused on the Forum. .Prien should be considered as sunk (16 mins) Yet, there's something we consider as no fair. You see:
Actual when a commander that gets disconnected after the free drop-off time is considered as sunk no matter what he had done and how had he been participating in the game. The result of this is:

1. -30pts for DD or -50pts for SUB for the commanther and his team.
2. The comamnder isn't going to sink anything else (remember that's not his fault - to be disconnected)
3. Opposing team stays in the game with an adventage of one unit.

Now. No player will leave the game on puropse having his vessel not damaged without fighting causing his mates continue battle with such disadventage and loosing the oportunity to sink some merchies himself.
Now it's the way, that when the guy gets disconnected without his foult, his mates stay in the game outnumbered and with poor chances of winning. Farthermore, the team gets 30 or 50 points less!!! Sorry guys, but its a bit funny.
Pl_Prien just told me that out of 6 games that heve been already played, 5 players got disconnected!!! (verify it if he's wrong). Every time the team that lost his player because of disconnection, lost the battle!!

Now, what we propose is a minor add-on to the rules:

Commander who got dropped off is considered as SURVIVED if:
- he fought but as a result of the fight he didn't sink any vessel (warship or merchant)
- he didnt get damaged
- drop off didn't occure during a close combat (torpedo attack, deptch charge attack or artillery fire attack)

In any other circumstances the commander would be considered us sunk (KIA -actually, that's how we call it PS )

Each of these is easy to check in the log files.

That's only our proposal. Everything is up to you. However, we hope you will take that into consideration. We think it would make the tournament more fair, and hopefully you will agree at that point.

That would be it. Sorry guys for my english (i'm still learning) and hope u will understand what is it all about. Or at last you'll get the point .

ok olo

i go speak for this rules with the interflotilla responsible

but i propose to continue with the rules of start til untill the end of first championnat

because we can look the bad rules , whrite this in a forum and spaek for this pbs and after read a new rules

for the second championnat

are you ok ???

i'm sorry for pl prien but this rules can arrive for a ms or other players

confim me for the game if is ok to valid

friendly

Hi OLO,
thank you for your proposal, i read them with great interest.

I think we all (I mean the 4 IF flotillas) agreed on rules for this first ladder. It will be not fair to change the rules in the middle of the tournament, and even if everything is not perfect, it has to be tested.

Anyway, the debate for the second round (starting january 2004) is open.

Of course this disconnection problem cause a lot of troubles, and the team which loose a sub or a DD is outnumbered and therefore has two more reason to loose the game...

You may have a look on our statistics since we record games:
http://www.mille-sabords.com/fms/manches.php
(if you want to have it in english, go to the FMS site:
http://www.mille-sabords.com/fms
select the UK flag on the lower left corner (under the menu), and after select:
"Championnat FMS" + "Manches"

We have now, with the PM103 patch, still:
1% of sub and 4% of DD who disconnect "before the game start"
5% of subs and 9% of DD who disconnect "during the game".

For the IF championship the percentages are higher...

It is very difficult to compensate by any set of rules such a problem.


About the definition of disconnected "before" the game and "during" the game", it is another point we may have endless discussion about.

In our internal championship, a player is considered as disconnected BEFORE the game start if there was:
- no detected sub by the DD
- no armament fired.
As soon as a sub is detected or a torpedo/gun fired, the game is engaged and a disconnected player is considered as sunk


For the Inter-flottila tournament, a different rule was selected (the 15 minutes). It was not my choice, but the choice of the 4 Inter-Flotilla correspondants.
The BIG advantage of this rule is that it is easy to apply, and it does not result in endless discussions.

To be implemented in an international championship, a rule must be as simple as possible, with as less as possible different interpretation.

We are a short group of 4 flotillas, but just imagine that in the next round we have a couple of US flotillas, full of "lawers captains".

The debate is open, lets continue this way.

Ok then, As you wish. Let's contionue this unfair fight .

ok i valid the game

Olo :

1) a choice is unfair when it concerns only one side. The rule is the same for the all the flotillas so it is fair as the risk is even for both players/flotillas. Maybe it's not the best choice but it has a strong advantage right now, an easy way to solve the disconnection problem and avoid any claim/disput.

2) all the flotillas agreed on the rules so there is no need to change anything about them now.

3) We'll consider any new idea/suggestion for the next turn which should start on the beginning of the new year. For this reason we'll open a new subject where we'll keep a "list of to do things" for the next round.

PL_OLO was kidding telling about unfair battle
We've just told our point of view which is right in our opinion.
Currently the disconnection of a player has got a very big influence on a score of a play and finall result.
We understand your point of view and we don't mind it.
By the way maybe we should seperate death and disconnection in the score table?

PL_PRIEN: ok I will made one or two new column in the individual results with a difference between KIA and disconnected.

There is also some strong demands in M-S flotilla to have for the subs a coulumn with the number of Destroyer victims. Up to now there is no difference between a cargo victim and a warship victim.

I am sure it is possible, All the informations are stored, but I have to check wether it will need a rebuild of the result table. In this case it will take longer...

We even may go further and display the type of cargo: i.e. tanker, troop ship, Aircraft carrier etc...

I am searching a nice set of ship profiles for the score panel if any of you has such a graphic file, he may contact me with a PM or on this forum.